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Back From Vacation

So sorry I haven't posted anything lately. My wife and I have been up in central California this weekend. I'll try to crop some interesting pictures of tow-in surfing at a spot just south of Pebble Beach later. A Reformed brother of Mexican descent saw the discussion "Black, White, and Reformed" over on the Heidelblog and wrote in to comment:

I found your link via The HB. I wanted to comment on two things that you were addressing with Dr. Clark. First, I know I do not know you, but I do know you are a professing Christian (Reformed) like myself. As a Mexican-American (Hispanic, whatever!) I wanted to let you know that I agreed with most of your assessment about Mexicans in the US. I also wanted to let you know that, contrary to popular belief expulsion of Mexicans from Mexico is and has been occurring. The well paying jobs in Mexico are being taken up by Hispanic whites. This is not rare in Mexico. It is common thing for a Spaniard, or someone from Argentina to migrate to Mexico and get a well paying job. For this reason, the rich in Mexico are White, Mexican White. Like many of my families members. I know more millionaires personally in Mexico than I do here in the US. But this is not the problem.
The truth about Mexicans who have invaded the US are either Indian look alike (Antonio Villaraigoza, George Lopez,etc.) who are brown skin, ranchy type, Catholic, uneducated, etc. The problem Mexico is facing is the same problem the US is facing with Mexicans Illegals. That is, they do not want or have not been proper normal citizens. Why? I think a lot has to do with our Culture which has change in the last fifty years. In specific, the Roman Mexican Church which has influence most Mexicans.

Basically, what I wanted to say is that the problem Mexico has been going through in the last forty and fifty years is the SAME problem the US or better yet Anglo-Americans are facing with illegal mexican immigrates. The problem is the failure of Mexicans who are reluctant or are not aware that living in a country means learning the language (whether Spanish in Mexico or English in America), being educated, assimilating to its modern culture while knowing the past like its history, behaving like proper citizens, being productive, contributing to the society, economic, etc. If you ask me why? I think it has to do with most of its roman catholic culture. For example, if your job is that of a farmer, manufacturer worker, lawnmower then that is what you are and the Catholic thinking prevails which like the Biblical teaching of being content with what we have. Why study to be a corrupt lawyer when you can do Gods mandate of providing for your family and of raising a family. Especially when the state is perceived to be an enemy of the church (Roman Church). Therefore, who cares if they come across illegal when there thought is that they are trying to feed themselves or their families. Another problem is what happens when they arrived but that I can talk about at another time. This does not mean that I endorse this type of thinking as a Mexican-American. I, as a Reformed Christian, have come to believe and know the Puritan work ethic. And this I hold to be the proper biblical understanding. In my opinion the best thing a Reformed Christian can do after communicating the gospel with our lives is to bring this understanding to all people.

The major cultural difference between Britain, the progenitor of the US, and Spain, the progenitor of Mexico, is a difference in faith. As far as I know, the Reformation never came to Spain, (though there are quite a few Reformed mission works there now), but Britain was a thoroughly Protestant country when it founded the US. This fact can't be overlooked in terms of cultural influence upon this republic. I have heard other Mexican Christians speak ill of the Roman Catholic church in Mexico, who seemed to believe that it was a source of many of the cultural problems there. My intention at this point is not to beat up on Catholics, as my own mother was raised Irish Catholic. But I do think the Roman Catholic church's belief in sola ecclesia and the authority of tradition can easily lead to an overly powerful, badly-behaved clergy, and the clergy often set the behavioral examples in a society and provide its spiritual guidance. When the church, which is composed of sinners (including the pope), is given an authority equal to that of Scripture to determine the rule of faith and practice, the clergy can often be assumed by the laity to be above reproach, whether or not it is so. According to the pastoral letters, I think, church elders are to meet behavioral standards before and during their service, and that the church body has the right to hold their leadership to those standards if the elders won't do so. We would also argue that all of the church traditions relevant to Christian faith and practice (2 Timothy) have been enscripturated in the writing of the New Testament, thus making Scripture the only rule (_sola Scriptura_).

Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 at 05:41PM by Registered CommenterPRCalDude | Comments4 Comments

Reader Comments (4)

I saw video of the high surf in CA on TV today 14 Jan and wondered if you were out there in it.
Interesting take on the 'white' Mexican, 'dark' Mexican jobs and way of life. Catholicism does seem to ensure a country's relative poverty.

January 14, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterSameNoKami

I surfed on Sunday, but southern Calfornia was quite a bit smaller than northern California. Central CA, where we were gets big surf, but there are few good spots and there's a lot of sharks, which makes going out in crappy surf much less worthwhile.

In NorCal, they had a big wave contest at Half-Moon Bay at Mavericks. Pictures are here

January 15, 2008 | Registered CommenterPRCalDude

I would agree with your general statement that the Catholic faith is the root of many of Mexico's problems. It certainly does not provide the work ethic that Protestantism has provided.

That said, when you say, "When the church, which is composed of sinners (including the pope), is given an authority equal to that of Scripture to determine the rule of faith and practice...", I think you are showing a considerable misunderstanding of the Catholic faith. This is a common problem among Protestants, so I don't mean to single you out here, but this reflects a misunderstanding of the role of Holy Tradition in the Catholic faith. It is a bit too long to try to explain here, but I would suggest that you read some Catholic sources on this, as opposed to Protestant sources, to get a more accurate understanding of the way it really works.

January 20, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterDr.D

That said, when you say, "When the church, which is composed of sinners (including the pope), is given an authority equal to that of Scripture to determine the rule of faith and practice...", I think you are showing a considerable misunderstanding of the Catholic faith. This is a common problem among Protestants, so I don't mean to single you out here, but this reflects a misunderstanding of the role of Holy Tradition in the Catholic faith. It is a bit too long to try to explain here, but I would suggest that you read some Catholic sources on this, as opposed to Protestant sources, to get a more accurate understanding of the way it really works.

My understanding comes from reading the Catechism of the CAtholic church. The Catechism often appeals to various Papal rulings and stuff of that nature, rather than to the Bible alone. It also says such things as, "The Church teaches thus and such....". If you look at Protestant confessions, they start off with a similar disclaimer:

"The infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is the Scripture itself: and therefore, when there is a question about the true and full sense of any Scripture (which is not manifold, but one), it must be searched and known by other places that speak more clearly," (WCF I:9),
and
The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men.[12] Nevertheless, we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word:[13] and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and government of the Church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature, and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed.
(WCF I:6)

Now, the CAtholic Encyclopedia has this to say about the Church (meaning the Roman Catholic church) being the rule of faith:

The term Church, in this connection, can only denote the teaching Church, as is clear from the passages already quoted from the New Testament and the Fathers. But the teaching Church may be regarded either as the whole body of the episcopate, whether scattered throughout the world or collected in an ecumenical council, or it may be synonymous with the successor of St. Peter, the Vicar of Christ. Now the teaching Church is the Apostolic body continuing to the end of time (Matthew 28:19-20); but only one of the bishops, viz., the Bishop of Rome, is the successor of St. Peter; he alone can be regarded as the living Apostle and Vicar of Christ, and it is only by union with him that the rest of the episcopate can be said to possess the Apostolic character (Vatican Council, Sess. IV, Prooemium). Hence, unless they be united with the Vicar of Christ, it is futile to appeal to the episcopate in general as the rule of faith. At the same time, it is clear that the Church may derive from the conflicting views of the Doctors a clearer knowledge of the Deposit of Faith committed to her, for as St. Augustine pointedly asked, when treating of the re-baptism question, "how could a question which had become so obscured by the dust raised in this controversy, have been brought to the clear light and decision of a plenary council, unless it had first been discussed throughout the world in disputations and conferences held by the bishops?" (De Baptismo, ii, 5).

So the Church is only a rule as long as it remains united to the successor of Peter as the infallible head? Where can I go to read more on the definition of tradition in the Roman Catholic Church (RCC)?

January 21, 2008 | Registered CommenterPRCalDude

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